Umbrel + BlueWallet + LNDHub

Yeah, it’s bit confused, because lndhub txs are still shown in the general node listing.
In the future it will be (I hope) marked in some different way and not shown / or shown in a different way in the node listing txs.
But don’t worry, those sats are NOT in your regular LN wallet available to spend. Are only using the liquidity of your node, not the balance.
But yes, you need to provide good liquidity with your node in order to be able to offer those “banking services” for lndhub wallets.

Thanks for the answer. Indeed the transfer did show up in the transaction list, but it also increased my Bitcoin balance on Umbrel. Is this a bug?

Note the image here. Before this addition from CashApp to Blue Wallet, I had 35k sats or so in my Umbrel Bitcoin Core Wallet. After the transfer of 61k sats, it shows as a deposit in the Bitcoin core Wallet and balance is increased by that amount.

But man, this is onchain wallet, and have nothing to do with LNDHUB. This is totally different.

Exactly, hence my confusion.

Just so you can see, my blue Wallet lightning balance also increased. At first I thought I had accidentally transferred to my on chain Wallet, but no because it shows here too.

Note that I found someone with I think the same issue, but not sure if that was resolved. Blue Wallet Lightning Node

To add additional context, I used the “Refill with External Wallet” button under “Manage Funds” in the Blue Wallet app and sent from an on-chain custodial wallet (cash app) to produce this issue. Can someone else try this on their instance to verify what is occurring here?

Does that mean that people who get a BW wallet on your node create a channel to your node?

No. Please read again the guide. it is explained there what is happening.

I see, sorry, I had to read it more carefully. So what is happening is that LNDHub is managing the money in the wallets, but that money is not actually used for transactions, instead the liquidity on the node is used.

So in case I want to use Bluewallet with my own Lightning Node, then in order to spend eg 50 ksat, I would have to create a channel with 50ksat on my node + create a lightning wallet on BlueWallet with 50ksat ?


Your node channels / liquidity is like water in some pipeline. The water is transport meaning.
Your funds in a LNDHUB wallet, is linked and depends on that liquidity, your funds are the “ships” carrying value (sats) from your wallets. Your node is only facilitating to you the way of transport.

Without good liquidity, your ships will just wreck in ports (wallets), so it is important that you, as node operator, keep a good flow of water in/out of your node channels.

The user of LNDHUB wallet, do not have to worry about that liquidity or opening channels, is just a user/customer of that liquidity.

So as a node operator, try to keep the total amount of inbound and outbound liquidity at a certain level of balancing. Not channel balancing is important, but total liquidity.

As you can see in this report in Thunderhub. This is the most important one. You see? My node have less inbound liquidity.
So what I should do?

  • look for more peers to open towards my node some channels,
  • I can loop out to onchain some funds from my outbound liquidity,
  • keysend some funds to a known peer and he send back the funds to my onchain wallet (ghetto swap)

Still a lot of confusion around this topic. I think in your example the gasoline would better apply to your channels liquidity to “send” the car is the channel. The family and friends using your node borrow your car and its gas and they provide the cargo (how much to send and to whom) and their cargo rides in your car using your gas. They cannot see or use your cargo “your balance”.

What has caused me confusion is grasping these items:
Umbrel only has 1 wallet built in and it is an onchain BTC wallet
Connecting BW to your umbrel, all it does is use your node instead of BW node when creating wallets. If you create BTC wallets or vaults it just uses your BTC node to validate. If you use BW to create LN wallets then it does not use any balance on your umbrel but it does use your nodes channels and liquidity to send and receive to your BW lightning wallet. Creating a LN wallet in BW that is connected to your node, that LN wallet is still on your phone, not viewable on the node, just uses the node to route.


I am having this same issue. Did you ever happen to find the reason or solution to why this was happening?

I cross-posted - see the other thread for more detail on where I landed: BlueWallet LNDHub Balance showing in On-Chain BTC Wallet

Is there anyway to see the balance of the different wallets created which uses my node as liquid rail? (Such as possible in the LNDhub app)


maybe I don’t get it so far. But I’m wondering about some possible issues:

  1. What will happen if the node admin tries to spend all the funds/ liquidity in his channels or loop them out? Is there any “block” for LNDhub funds - if the admin will spend more than his own by mistake?
  2. What will happen if the node admin (or the opposite side nodes) wants to close the channels? LNDhub users can’t get an onchain transaction, right? So what happens to their funds?

This could be a future implementation of LNDhub, not Umbrel related.
People should understand: Umbrel is just an interface that put together each piece of software. Umbrel have little to nothing to do with developing these apps.
You should ask this question in Bluewallet telegram community.

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My one question is if you spend down the balance of the node, do the balances of the wallets get effected at a certain point or do payments just fail for lack of liquidity?

I believe it’s separate issues.

You can have balance… But not enough liquidity to send it… Or the other way around.

Balance and liquidity are two separate things.
Balance are funds.
Liquidity is the transport.
Funds can’t be transported without proper liquidity.

So for example:

  • the node channels are depleted, in one side or another or doesn’t have enough channels/ space to move around the funds of the lndhub wallets
  • the lndhub wallets are stuck, could not be move out from that node.
  • funds on lndhub wallets are like some tokens, directly linked with the amount available on the LN node. If the operator decide to close all the channels, can do it, but those lndhub wallets will be locked, balance will still show as it was before, but cannot be used in any way.

The node operator has a very important task, when he’s offering lndhub wallets: have to have a good amount of channels and those channels also to have enough liquidity on both sides.

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