# Recovery from seed / no balance **URL:** \ **Category:** Support and Troubleshooting\ **Created:** [August 19, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789 "2021-08-19T20:23:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PlatoWright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3be4f8/32.png) [@PlatoWright](https://community.umbrel.com/u/PlatoWright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/1 "2021-08-19T20:23:38Z")
I have startup a new umbrel after a power failure. Raspberry Pi / umbrel version 0.4.0 I could spin up a new umbrel from the 24 word seed, Blockchain is synchronized 100% but balance is zero I did a recovery of LN channels (2 channels opened) by copying the channel.backup file and `$ ./bin/lncli restorechanbackup --multi_file /home/umbrel/umbrel/lnd/data/chain/bitcoin/mainnet/channel.backup` Channels don’t show up either. I can access the on-chain balance with Bluewallet and the UTXO are sitting were they were after the failure. It is like umbrel is not looking at the right addresses, and there is no wallet file in bitcoin folder I do know the two channels, are still open because I can see them in [http://1ml.com](http://1ml.com) doing a search with the node id I can get com RTL app. I am frustrated because I have resync’d 3 times already but the result doesn’t change, my balance is still zero and LN channels cannot be recovered. This is my backup id ``` cat karen.log | grep 'backup ID' | tail -n 1 {"message":"Successfully uploaded backup 1629363238800.tar.gz.pgp for backup ID 61438adef8b3960755db3c2ee2c02c79447e9f71371199cf0fb1c1a4e1047977"} ``` ---
**Author:** ![Vilas1979](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.umbrel.com/vilas1979/32/336_2.png) [@Vilas1979](https://community.umbrel.com/u/Vilas1979)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 10:29pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/2 "2021-08-19T22:29:02Z")
If you restored from seed and SCB, your channels were forceclosed and your fund will return in 2 weeks to your onchain wallet. That’s how restore works. Info on [1ml.com](http://1ml.com) is simply not actualised. Just wait. ---
**Author:** ![fireworksurprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fireworksurprise](https://community.umbrel.com/u/fireworksurprise)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 12:45am UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/3 "2021-08-20T00:45:02Z")
I had a fair bit of trouble like this while restoring as well. One thing you can try is to tail the lnd.log and see if you can pick out any issues. Navigate to (I think) \umbrel\lnd\logs\bitcoin\mainnet and run `tail -f lnd.log` If nothing stands out, another thing you can try is to force your node to [rescan for transactions](https://bitcoin.cipix.eu/en/umbrel-troubleshooting/#umbrel-rescan-utxo) (this is how mine ended up showing at first, and made me more confident). When you do this, try watching the lnd.log when it is scanning, and again see if anything stands out. Ultimately, even though I started seeing UTXOs recognized, I still had issues and had to rest my user data on the node one more time (Seed and username/password). [You can do this without downloading the blockchain again](https://bitcoin.cipix.eu/en/umbrel-troubleshooting/#umbrel-reset-data). Can’t guarantee any of this will work. It took me about a week of trying things like this to get a clear win and get all of the funds off. Anyway, if at any point you see some transactions, but not the funds from your channel closures, you can always run the SCB procedure again to see if anything changes. ---
**Author:** ![Matrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Matrox](https://community.umbrel.com/u/Matrox)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 5:45am UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/4 "2021-08-21T05:45:47Z")
Hmm with 1ML you need to check the last time it updated, this is in the ‘channels tab’ and look for the ‘Last update’ to confirm it has updated recently and if it is, then you’ll be able to see if the channels have been closed or not. ---
**Author:** ![PlatoWright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3be4f8/32.png) [@PlatoWright](https://community.umbrel.com/u/PlatoWright)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 6:43am UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/6 "2021-08-21T06:43:08Z")
Thanks fireworksurprise! I think your proposed solution points in the right direction, I will try it out. I am definitely convinced the problem is related to the addresses that umbrel looks at and rescan seems conceptually right. I realize that the rescan is done by a modification in lnd.conf `reset-wallet-transactions=true` and not the Bitcoin core set up or a wallet (by the way, there is no wallet.dat in umbrel, something I still don’t understand) Anyways I will follow your recommendation and let you all know. Thanks indeed ---
**Author:** ![PlatoWright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3be4f8/32.png) [@PlatoWright](https://community.umbrel.com/u/PlatoWright)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 9:44am UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/7 "2021-08-21T09:44:47Z")
Thanks Vilas. I did restore from the seed and SCB. I will wait for a couple of weeks to see if channels are closed. **But still my umbrel doesn’t see the on-chain balance**. There are few TXs I did in my Ari GI la set up (before the power failure) and there is still an UTXO that I can see with Blue Wallet. it is still there but for some reason umbrel does not show it. It must have something to do with the addresses that umbrel looks at. Why the new umbrel (recovered with same seed) doesn’t not look at this same addresses (showing my original TXs) is something I don’t understand. Shouldn’t be the addresses determined in the same exact order in any set up when you use the same seed, as in any other wallet I have used? Actually, I can see the TXs if I use the seed in BlueWallet. Any way to tell umbrel to rescan more addresses? Thanks for taking the time to help. ---
**Author:** ![Proficere](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.umbrel.com/proficere/32/1046_2.png) [@Proficere](https://community.umbrel.com/u/Proficere)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/8 "2021-09-04T14:45:37Z")
I have the same problem. I will wait 2016 blocks (14 days) after restoring by the seed, too. But I have still the fact, that the Umbrel Wallet shows zero balance and blue wallet with the same seed shows the old balance. I even could transfer a small part from the blue wallet to another. @PlatoWright Did you recieve the funds out of your old channels? And does your Umbrel Wallet shows a balance now? Best regards from Cologne ---
**Author:** ![PlatoWright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3be4f8/32.png) [@PlatoWright](https://community.umbrel.com/u/PlatoWright)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 11:46am UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/9 "2021-09-08T11:46:53Z")
Yes it did work. When using the channel backup, it closed the channels returning the balanco to your wallet. I had a problem with one of the channels (opened with [tipping.me](http://tipping.me)) which didn´t get closed. But I performed the recovery process again and, this time, the channel got closed. My guess is tha the recovery with the SCB tries to close the channel shaking hand with the peer, and, if it is not available it doesnt force-close it. So if you try again some time latter, it will succeed. BTW. I had an issue with the lnd.conf which kept reseting the wallets transaction `reset-wallet-transactions=true` This re-scanning takes a long time to do as it performs a rescan of the wallet addresses. I had to do it the first time I tried the recovery but if you leave it, it starts all over again everytime you startup your umbrel After I completed the recovery process (closing channels) I had to to comment it `# reset-wallet-transactions=true` which I guess is equivalent to de default option `reset-wallet-transactions=false` Hope this helps ---
**Author:** ![Proficere](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.umbrel.com/proficere/32/1046_2.png) [@Proficere](https://community.umbrel.com/u/Proficere)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/10 "2021-09-16T16:47:32Z")
Hello again, yes it worked! Thanks a lot! ---
**Author:** ![DarthCoin](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.umbrel.com/darthcoin/32/1628_2.png) [@DarthCoin](https://community.umbrel.com/u/DarthCoin)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/11 "2021-09-16T16:58:24Z")
Strange, I do not see that line on my conf file. You said that the line appears after you initiate the restore/force close the channels? ---
**Author:** ![PlatoWright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3be4f8/32.png) [@PlatoWright](https://community.umbrel.com/u/PlatoWright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/12 "2021-09-17T15:35:23Z")
Well, I ca not asure how or when that line appeared. I could even include it myself while trying to solve the issue. But the described process worked out. Sorry for not being able to give you more details ---
**Author:** ![GrandArcher](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.umbrel.com/grandarcher/32/1434_2.png) [@GrandArcher](https://community.umbrel.com/u/GrandArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 1:30am UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/13 "2021-10-11T01:30:58Z")
I am a bit confused as I have two nodes running with the same seed. I set one up on slower non ssd but transfered bitcoin to it before fully synced. Balance showed up. I lit up sencond node with ssd with same seed and is now fully synced but no balance. I did not open any channels on first node. will this fix this or should i be looking elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![GrandArcher](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.umbrel.com/grandarcher/32/1434_2.png) [@GrandArcher](https://community.umbrel.com/u/GrandArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 2:02am UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/14 "2021-10-11T02:02:53Z")
Nevermind I just copied the wallet.db file. I am a bit confused as I thought the wallet was based on the seed used to setup the node. Am I wrong in that assumption? ---
**Author:** ![PlatoWright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3be4f8/32.png) [@PlatoWright](https://community.umbrel.com/u/PlatoWright)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/15 "2021-10-25T17:04:57Z")
I have had the same problem when recovering from the seed. I must say that every time I recovered from seed I copied an already downloaded blockchain and this might be the source of the problem (@GrandArcher did you copied a downloaded blockchain in your second umbrel?) Copying the blockchain was a pretty simple process and I think it worked fine (scp, check permissions and owner, etc) and once copied you startup umbrel and shows 1 **00% sinchronized**. Then you need to wait for electrum server to catch up and in the end the umbrel is fully sync’ed and running, but the **balance is wrong** I don’t understand how addresses are selected, derived or scanned (electrs). I am not confident on the recovery process. Every other wallet has a predictable outcome when you use the same seed but I don’t get umbrel’s way of selecting addresses. It is sad because I really do like the umbrel concept, it is a fantastic project but in the end I don’t understand it (or have confidence) as to store sats on it. ---
**Author:** ![z3ke\_sk1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.umbrel.com/z3ke_sk1/32/3207_2.png) [@z3ke\_sk1](https://community.umbrel.com/u/z3ke_sk1)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 2:45am UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/16 "2021-10-27T02:45:59Z")
I’ve been following this thread for a while now since I’m having the same issue. I waited the recommended 14 days and a few extra days but it is still showing a 0 on chain balance. I have tried the command to rescan wallet utxo before and after waiting the recommended days but still nothing. This problem is on my Umbrel’s end because I can see my balance when I put the seed into Blue Wallet. ---
**Author:** ![PlatoWright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3be4f8/32.png) [@PlatoWright](https://community.umbrel.com/u/PlatoWright)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 12:38pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/17 "2021-10-27T12:38:01Z")
There si an issue opened in github to follow this. I’d suggest we all give our comments there so developers can look at it. [https://github.com/getumbrel/umbrel/issues/1077](https://github.com/getumbrel/umbrel/issues/1077) ---
**Author:** ![GrandArcher](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.umbrel.com/grandarcher/32/1434_2.png) [@GrandArcher](https://community.umbrel.com/u/GrandArcher)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/18 "2021-11-05T19:00:45Z")
I did not copy the blockchain initially but a couple of days later I did because of how slow it was. ---
**Author:** ![G-RAM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@G-RAM](https://community.umbrel.com/u/G-RAM)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 12:36pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/19 "2021-11-17T12:36:24Z")
OK it’s been more than three weeks now and still my funds are missing. Any advice? Anyone? Bueller? ---
**Author:** ![Mikel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Mikel](https://community.umbrel.com/u/Mikel)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://community.umbrel.com/t/recovery-from-seed-no-balance/2789/20 "2021-11-27T18:29:55Z")
After a seed recovery, LND enters a recovery mode that searches for past used addresses If this is disrupted, this can cause the wallet balances to be missing I was able to resolve this issue by following these instructions > > > After standard restore procedure on Umbrel, only the lightning balances from the… closed channels appear in Umbrel. > > Umbrel does show the starting onchain balance 'deposit', however this whole balance is listed as 'lightning wallet - channel open', even when only part of this balance is used the open the channel. The remaining part is still in the onchain wallet. > After restore and closing the channels, only the closed channel amount shows up in Umbrel 'deposit'. However; the remaining onchain balance remains in limbo. > > I did perform the UTXO rescan procedure, but onchain balance didn't show. > > Might be I did not wait long enough? 20+ hours after electrum finished indexing. > Still I think this should be analysed/improved, as more and more 'beginners' will run into this issue. > > Blue wallet did show the full balance within minutes. > Maybe worth to check their process and mimic this logic on Umbrel for restore/re-scan purposes. > > \------------------------------- > \- Standard restore procedure: > \- This method is the normal way, as described and recommended by Umbrel team. > \- > \- It is suppose that you already have the 24 words seed and the channel.backup file obtained previously. If you didn’t make that backup, but you still have access to your old node drive, you can find it in /home/umbrel/umbrel/lnd/data/chain/bitcoin/mainnet/channel.backup or you can request a copy from Umbrel devs. > \- > \- Install a new instance of Umbrel. Start the dashboard page and you will be prompted to use previously backup 24 words seed. > \- > \- Once you’ve restored from the 24 words, it might take a few minutes to a few hours for it to scan all of your previous Bitcoin (on-chain) transactions and balances. Meanwhile, here’s how you can restore the funds in your Lightning channels. > \- > \- STEP 1: COPY OVER THE CHANNEL BACKUP FILE FROM YOUR COMPUTER TO YOUR UMBREL. > \- > \- Enter using SSH 28 and run this: > \- > \- scp \ umbrel@umbrel.local:/home/umbrel/umbrel/lnd/channel.backup > \- > \- Replace \ with the exact path to channel backup file on your computer > \- The password is moneyprintergobrrr, except on version 0.3.3 or later where the password is your personal user password instead. > \- > \- STEP 2: RECOVER FUNDS > \- > \- cd ~/umbrel && ./bin/lncli restorechanbackup --multi\_file /data/.lnd/channel.backup > \- > \- After you run this, wait for 1 minute. You should now be able to see your channels being closed on http://umbrel.local/lightning 7. > \- You should wait patiently until the funds are coming back to your onchain wallet. It will take at least 40 blocks. You can see/check the details of closing channels in the troubleshooting guide. > > \------------------------------ > \- Extra Step to show full balance after channel closes. > \- Enter seed into Blue Wallet mobile wallet. > \------------------------------ > > > \- Rescan wallet UTXOs procedure > \- > \- I sent funds to my node wallet and wasn’t 100% synced, now I can’t see them. > \- > \- Step 1 – In a terminal window, execute this to SSH: > \- > \- ssh -t umbrel@umbrel.local > \- > \- Password: \< your own dashboard password \> (remember that you will not see what you type, then press ENTER) > \- > \- Step 2 – execute the following command to rescan wallet’s UTXOs: > \- > \- sed -i "s/\\\[Application Options\\\]/\\\[Application Options\\\]\\nreset-wallet-transactions=true/g;" ~/umbrel/lnd/lnd.conf && sudo reboot > \- > \- Step 3 – Wait some time so LND can rescan all wallet’s UTXOs. If it solve the issue, run this to stop it from rescanning on a future restart: > \- > \- sed -i "s/reset-wallet-transactions=true//g;" ~/umbrel/lnd/lnd.conf && sudo reboot > \- > \- Wait, it can take quite a while. > > \------------------------------ > > Guides > https://community.umbrel.com/t/how-to-restore-your-node-wallet/3602 > https://bitcoin.cipix.eu/en/umbrel-troubleshooting/#umbrel-rescan-utxo